People without mental power

Post Reply
aspie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 17:08

People without mental power

Post by aspie » Sun Apr 19, 2009 16:17

Why mentally retarded children come to this life and how we are supposed to treat them?
There is a version exist that they are that way because in previous lives they were murderers, etc .
Another version is that some souls decided to come to that life, but without capacity to sin.
There is also many versions exist in term of how people with power are supposed to treat them-developing them or leave them the way they are and just relieve their fate, their pain (if any)etc, etc. Trying to change them in any way we completely impose our own will on them, our values and beliefs. Some literature say that people are not supposed to feel sorry for them
Would be nice to know what forum think about that. Irinushka?
Thanks a lot

User avatar
Ultra
Posts: 672
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 23:39

Re: People without mental power

Post by Ultra » Mon Apr 20, 2009 15:15

I believe that it can not all be generalized down to one reason or even a few reasons as to why it happens and what is behind it.
Also it can not be generalised on the bases of a single case.

Not sure if a list of reasons can be provided for the classifications of the vast variety of the mental disorders. The reasons are as numerous as the number of instances (mental disorders) when and where it happens.

I am not sure if even Irinushka, with all her abilities and experience, would be able to contribute much to this subject at the moment because it refers to the undefined and abstract matter.


Perhaps if you bring for the discussion one particular case then we could all look into the details, the inside information, and go from there.

User avatar
Irinushka
Site Admin
Posts: 7390
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:14
Location: Italy, Piedmont
Contact:

Re: People without mental power

Post by Irinushka » Mon Apr 20, 2009 18:55

I think that Ultra is absolutely right. :)
I prefer not going into an academic interpretation of this phenomenon, but to catch its meaning from the point of view of energy transmissivity and our transformation stuff, but it’s so complicate…

Something like this sequence.

Upriver we (all of us) have the oscillations and the wave principle (a primary condition of presence on the Earth), then comes the mental power level and then the “doable things” level.

If a person is mentally retarded and so has a very limited field of “doable things” and of ".exe" programs, does it mean that all his energy transmissivity sequence is wrong or deviated?

Or maybe it can exist some direct excitability connection, from the basic oscillations of his structure to the practical output level which is totally transparent for his mind and doesn't concern him directly?

A mentally retarded person as a representative of some energy exigency of our planetary “going and doing” which doesn’t need any form of mental focusing and understanding?
AIRI-SON

Tornerò a sollecitare le vostre anime

"Съешь же ещё этих мягких французских булок, да выпей чаю." :figurati : ... : : down :

aspie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 17:08

Re: People without mental power

Post by aspie » Tue Apr 21, 2009 18:24

Well, I meant it like that
Regular/typical souls come to this physical life with some purpose-to learn some lessons, to grow spiritually, etc, etc. to create themselves in some way. Those souls I'm talking about cannot do anything on their own and totally dependent (on us- caregivers), so what are their purpose here or what they are here for
If examples could help I'd describe some (I'm not sure they would help, but maybe)
-... we had a Special special child C.. He had 24/7 nursing care, the whole team of nurses cared for him. He came to our place from another residence, so those nurses knew him for a long time already and their devotion to him was one of admirable thing I ever saw. They all adored him. I worked overnight shift, so spent a lot of time around them. They gave him non-stop care at night when nobody could check on them and they could have some rest (as most of us did). Along with numerous medical procedures they constantly turn him around, washed him, fixed his bed and they always watched he would hold his teddy bear under his arm.
C. himself was very interesting as if he stepped out from Shagal paintings. Red curly hair , long pious, big crooked nose on big face, white skins with a lot of freckles all over his face and arms and huge beautiful green eyes-green with different colored dots inside. The most amazing was his hands-very delicate. Every woman would love to have such a beautiful fingers as he had and perfectly shaped nails...
C. never left his bed, other then being outside in his wheel chair. He did not talk and seemed even did not pronounce any sounds, could not move, but he displayed some emotions (more as grimaces) which nurses could read and explain us what C meant by that and they..... enjoyed communicating with him..... We could not understand why those women were so attached to him. When he used to get to the hospital they missed him and found time to go to the hospital to visit him. It was especially surprising a teacher came twice a week to educate C. as he did not go to school unlike our other kids.
C. did not stay long with us as donation money stopped coming and he went to regular government hospital with regular care. All nurses very genuinely distressed.

By that time that attitude was very puzzling to me, but later we got a boy like that and it was easy to understand those women . That is Special kind of communication which is not easy to describe. No words, some sounds, sometimes even no sounds, only facial expression, which is very subtle and up to your interpretation. The most important is energy, pure energy. So, there was a boy we had, a pure angel, a healing field. No matter how much you got upset, just stay near him for a couple of minutes exchange some communication and your condition would changed for the better.

Everybody loved him tremendously....and he loved everybody and managed to express his pleasure when somebody would approach him. Sometimes he cried from pain or being uncomfortable, but all other time he was pleased with everything . He had a great personality. His head was small as most of his brain seemed was removed
Anyway once a story happened which made us puzzled a lot. We had an overnight worker with whom worked the same shift. He was a great person, but being in hard life situation going though hard divorce being completely devoted to his daughter and always under big stress.
This child became his night companion. He spent a lot of time with him sharing his life issues with him and he gave his great care. .In awhile that man tragically died.
One of coworker shared sad news with the child. Then in a while he took the child to the shower and the child was crying terribly. Shower was always the best time for him, which he enjoyed a lot and always was happy with. And that evening he was crying and it was impossible to stop him.
.We never can say what those non-verbal kids are able to understand. There is no ways to find that out either.....
My opponent (a nurse working with those kids) the person who shares popular opinion that those kids are former murders, etc (and she took it from esoteric literature) was surprised
.Wow, you really think they can understand something?..
I experienced a lot of incidents when those kids showed great understanding, something which nobody would ever expect from them......but again it's up to our interpretation mostly

I think maybe besides brain we have something else for "understanding" and probably those kids use "that something else" for understanding instead of mind which they are deprived?"--

For a long time I believed that we should developed their mind whatever is given to them till I had working experience with a beautiful girl with autism. I observed at home a very happy child turning necklaces most of the time and listening music and...very happy with her life. Her mother (adopted though) used to say "She is perfect the way she is"..still I wanted to try to develop her, to teach her some skills, etc (I'm not a teacher or therapist though). I went to school to see what the girl is capable to do. In school I meet different girl-aggressive, angry. Teacher started to show me how they work with her -teaching her puzzle or something. The girl was angry, was hitting the teacher, throwing things, etc. Teacher continued and recommended me to ignore that behavior and continue what need to be done. I stopped that case all together and we had discussion on the work place.
"Do we have right to develop those kids the way WE think is right (as they have no say on that?
(ABA technique for autistic kids I observed could be pretty traumatizing )
We asked out psychologist opinion, but did not get clarity on this. Psychologist himself is the person whose personal beliefs are different from what he preaches at work place where kids life depends on him very much.

What I mean is there is big mess HERE (difference of beliefs and approaches) and I'd like to get some peek THERE where Irinushka's or Landers friends are located to get their perspective on that issue-what are those souls about which cannot create themselves in any way, dependent, non-productive, etc, etc
Thanks

User avatar
Massimo
Posts: 210
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 20:02

Re: People without mental power

Post by Massimo » Fri Apr 24, 2009 18:53

Aspie, reading your posts I see references to two of those concepts that Irinushka would call “common denominators”.

The first one is that people without mental power are in a disadvantaged condition compared to “normal” people and that the only way to try helping them is to try reducing as far as possible their distance from “normal” people, “teaching” them how to behave, i.e. how to “normally” react to the inputs coming from the external world so that they too may be as happy (!) as “normal” people are… Clearly, this first “common denominator” carries with it all those hypotheses about being a reincarnated murderer or about sin, so in general referring to these people’s existence as to a condemnation…

The second one is more “technical” and regards the absolute association between brain and mind, between brain and sensitiveness, brain and understanding, brain and knowing: a lot of scientific evidence has demonstrated that this one-to-one association is not true, that people which suffered wide brain damages could still perform tasks (like speaking, calculating, remembering…) that should have been impossible due to the lack of the corresponding brain areas. I would also add the fact that we usually feel things through our belly (for example), more than through our head, a sudden fright, the strain for a particular situation, etc. are all events and conditions that we “detect” before analyzing them with our rational mind.

Another thing that looks to me a little oversimplified is the definition itself of “people without mental power”. Actually, considering what we really know about the extension of the powers of the mind, it is not that sure that a person who doesn’t exhibit standard mental characteristics has no mental power at all… (Duddits, the character of Stephen King’s Dreamcatcher comes to my mind).

So the first thing should be that of clearing the table from these “common denominators”, forget that they exist and look at the problem with a “fresh mind” and a “free heart”.

This means first of all that we cannot make any real assumption on what they understand or know, on their level of “happiness” and on their real level of achievement (that could be happening at “levels” and “environments” whose existence we don’t even suspect).

As we more and more clearly understand human beings are much more different from each other (in terms of “inner architecture” and therefore of way of existing and self-fulfillment) than is accepted by the standardized sociological, psychological, philosophical, political and religious views on the matter. People without mental power are no exception, they are “more different” or more explicitly different than the average and this means that probably they will follow paths for their existence and self-fulfillment that are more evidently very specific.

One major characteristic is, as you say, that they are a lot more dependent from the others than an average person. Another characteristic is that they usually do not communicate very much or communicate in a different way using their own language. Another one is that they “see” a usually limited and very personalized slice of surrounding reality, perhaps even a slice that is not usually “seen” or taken into consideration by “normal” people. And they “understand” their existence in their specific way.

If we widen our perspective a little bit we actually see that it is just a question of degree: none of us can live in a totally independent way, everybody understands (or does not understand) the sense of his life in his own way, everybody tends to use his own words to describe what he “sees” (just asking ten witnesses to describe an accident means receiving ten different versions, and none of them is usually accurate, imagine describing the sense of life).

From the point of view of the New Operating System, they are living beings that exist. Yes, they exist in a different way from the majority of us (but actually we too exist in a way that is far from identical to that of our friends, relatives or colleagues), but this doesn’t make any difference.

The main point, on top of everything, is existence, not even growth, purpose to learn some lesson, knowledge, self-development, etc., just existence and a self-fulfillment that is much wider in its possible proceedings and applications than the standardized and very old-reality ones that everybody knows and usually accepts as “normal”. The other points are secondary, are just possible ways of interpreting existence, of “putting oneself to earth”, of rationalizing the experience of being…

Therefore we should consider the question of the interaction with people without mental power as part of the general question of interaction in the New Reality: a “normal” person with his own specific ondular nature, with his own deep “reasons” and purposes interacts with another one (in this specific case a person without mental power) who also has his own specific ondular nature, his own deep “reasons” and purposes, on the basis of their common ground, of the intersection between their natures in a specific moment and both receive what is useful and necessary for them in that moment and both provide to the other party what they have that is unique and that is useful and necessary for the other party in that moment.

Reasons and ways of interaction when dealing with people without mental power should be looked for on this ground only, exactly in the same manner as for the interaction with anybody else.

As you describe very well in your second post, many “normal” persons could receive a lot from the interaction with these boys, probably receive even more than what they could give them back (even if a standard superficial analysis of the situation would say that the nurses were giving everything without receiving anything back).

Exactly as for the interaction among “normal” people, not only it is not possible, but even not desirable, that these persons interact with anybody: the difference here is that these persons usually have even less chances than normal ones for deciding with whom to interact or not interact, but again, on a wider perspective, it’s easy to see that is very much a question of degree…

The details about the interaction are dependent on the specific case: in one case, for example, trying to increase their level of independence could be useful and correct, in another one completely wrong.

In your descriptions it’s easy to see cases where the interaction happens between people understanding each other, their respective needs and acting accordingly, even if one of the two parties doesn’t have mental power. And also people whose interaction is not particularly constructive, full of prejudices, mainly devoted to impose their control, perhaps in good faith, perhaps not, perhaps consciously, perhaps not… again, a situation not too different from those involving all of us…

So, in conclusion, I would say that the first and main step is that of a change of perspective and approach: a perspective and an approach based on existence in its wide and full meaning and not on some standardized psychological, or philosophical, or religious scheme that dictates what is right, good, desirable, which life scopes deserve to be pursued and which don’t.

If these new perspective and approach are applied, the details regarding each specific case will very likely be an almost automatic consequence, a natural evolution of things. If not, it’s quite pointless discussing which psychological, or philosophical, or religious theory best applies to people without mental power.

aspie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 17:08

Re: People without mental power

Post by aspie » Sat Apr 25, 2009 18:05

[quote="Massimo"]

The first one is that people without mental power are in a disadvantaged condition compared to “normal” people and that the only way to try helping them is to try reducing as far as possible their distance from “normal” people, “teaching” them how to behave, i.e. how to “normally” react to the inputs coming from the external world so that they too may be as happy (!) as “normal” people are… Clearly, this first “common denominator” carries with it all those hypotheses about being a reincarnated murderer or about sin, so in general referring to these people’s existence as to a condemnation…

Thanks a lot Massimo for so detailed analysis
Yes, that is official approach in education and overall attitude, so it supports that hypotheses...
I like another hypotheses which exists -" they are here to teach us"
You are right about wrong choice of the words "people without mental power", but what I actually meant by that was the fact they are so dependent on our attitude, sometimes in everything. Attitude is changing with time though
Considering new OC it's possible that those mysterious puzzling beings would adjust better then us as they don't have those old reality thought-forms to hold them back-we'll see
Thanks for helpful discussion

User avatar
Massimo
Posts: 210
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 20:02

Re: People without mental power

Post by Massimo » Sun Apr 26, 2009 23:48

aspie wrote: Thanks a lot Massimo for so detailed analysis
Yes, that is official approach in education and overall attitude, so it supports that hypotheses...
I like another hypotheses which exists -" they are here to teach us"
In a way it's certainly true.

First of all, the fact is that everybody is here to teach us something and these people make no exception.

Secondly, they have the advantage of being more natural, not "corrupted" by ideologisms, social conventions, habits... they are what they are and usually their essence is very pure and essential: just observing and interacting with an essence of this kind may be a very important lesson in itself.

If, instead, you are suggesting that this (of teaching us) is a kind of mission that they are given, it's their reason for being born, well, I would say that this is again the fruit of the common denominator I was speaking about in the other post, the one that sees us as "the important ones, the valuable ones" and them as the "unlucky ones, those without a reason of their own for existing" (because they cannot have our reasons).

Also, as I said before, the question of learning is secondary, is one of our ways of giving a meaning to our existence, and it may certainly be a very helpful "illusion" that allows a lot of people to realize themselves, but it's not the only reason (and I fear not the main one) for existence neither for us ("normal") nor for them.
aspie wrote: Considering new OC it's possible that those mysterious puzzling beings would adjust better then us as they don't have those old reality thought-forms to hold them back-we'll see
Thanks for helpful discussion
Yes, I totally agree, as I said above, they have a lot less encrustations to remove and abandon, they already live the way they are and this is one of the most difficult conditions to acquire for a "normal" person.

User avatar
Saul
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 22:08

Re: People without mental power

Post by Saul » Mon Apr 27, 2009 15:07

I would like to look at this from a different perspective, since I do not hold the same beliefs as most people on this forum.

I don't believe in souls "entering" a body from some ethereal realm. I'm not saying it's not true, just that "I" personally don't believe it.

The way I see it is, if we have a soul..whatever that may be, it is born at the time of conception and grows and flourishes into a human being. Sometimes however, as with the blossoming flower that shows it's head at the first signs of Spring, it can be damaged by nature, for the flower it may be a cold hard frost or snow and for us it can be any number of genetic abnormalities that sculpt us in a very different way from the majority of human beings.

It has often been said in literature that a person may think with their heart rather than their head. Coincidently it has been medically shown that this may in fact be true. The heart, along with many other of our organs seems to be able to retain memory and also react independently from our brains to outside stimuli.

Perhaps then, people who have developed in a different way than we consider "normal" and who's brain may have been damaged or disadvantaged in some way are, perhaps using other organs with which to think and process information. These organs however do not have the same connections to the rest of the body that the brain has and so, in consequence the person may not be able to speak or move...but they can still understand and try to respond in some way. We just need to be able to interpret this new language they speak?

It could also be the case that they dwell in a completely different world to that which surrounds them. In that world perhaps they are not disabled. Maybe they lead "normal" and fulfilling lives and the only indication of this to us is when something happens in that world....happy or sad...and it is reflected in slight movements, outbursts of crying or laughter but, with no apparent connection to the world we all live in ? It's just a thought :)

Any talk of the souls of murderers being somehow reincarnated as people with physical and/or mental disabilities is I think, complete nonsense and the product of ignorance and superstition. It's a shame so many children and adults are subjected to lack of caring and treatment on the basis of such outmoded ways of thinking.

aspie, it seems to me your a very caring and understanding individual. The fact that you brought this topic to the forum says a lot about who you are. :)

aspie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 17:08

Re: People without mental power

Post by aspie » Tue Apr 28, 2009 17:51

Saul wrote:
Perhaps then, people who have developed in a different way than we consider "normal" and who's brain may have been damaged or disadvantaged in some way are, perhaps using other organs with which to think and process information. These organs however do not have the same connections to the rest of the body that the brain has and so, in consequence the person may not be able to speak or move...but they can still understand and try to respond in some way. We just need to be able to interpret this new language they speak?

It could also be the case that they dwell in a completely different world to that which surrounds them. In that world perhaps they are not disabled. Maybe they lead "normal" and fulfilling lives and the only indication of this to us is when something happens in that world....happy or sad...and it is reflected in slight movements, outbursts of crying or laughter but, with no apparent connection to the world we all live in ? It's just a thought :)
I also think so and kind of collect the proofs of it , little stories as pieces of evidence. Most people usually connect those words to the places of my work as "pity" "sorrow", grief" and the like, but in reality people who work in those places experience a lot of fun. Those kids create the atmosphere of fun, laugh and they create very good positive energy around them ...they are simply happy creatures for the most part and it's so easy to make them happy if/when they are not.....
Sometimes I think that many "normal"people try so hard to get into "mind free" state meditating by hours. People with mental illnesses would give everything to shut their minds out for awhile. Possibly that those kids are already there and they are given that as a gift ...and we need to find ways to learn to appreciate that gift and learn to recognize what is going along with that gift

aspie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 17:08

Re: People without mental power

Post by aspie » Tue May 12, 2009 22:26

Dr Miller is a psychologist (of old school) from Boston who created an interesting program for children with autism and other disorders .He has O/A page and here is one of them
I ask Dr. Miller "Why do you take pictures and make films?".
His answer is:"Those kids don't connect very much places or the past events
and present events. What has already happened and what is now happening. In
most cases it's out of sight-out of mind. They live in the reality where
they are now and here. And it's very important to establish the connection
between different places and events or we may say between different
realities."

It said in books that majority of people live in their thinking either in the past or in the future and need to learn how to stay in the present...need some training for that

Joconde

Re: People without mental power

Post by Joconde » Wed May 13, 2009 13:16

In relation to the discussed subject I think it might be interesting to read/watch the story of brain scientist Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor who at the age 37 got a rare type of stroke and her left side of brain got shut down and without the dominant left side of her brain controlling her thoughts, her mind went silent and she got the experiance of shifting away from reality into a place of inner peace and Nirvana. She's also published a book where she explains what happened during her stroke and how she recovered.


http://www.oprah.com/article/spirit/ins ... oltetaylor

aspie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 17:08

Re: People without mental power

Post by aspie » Wed May 13, 2009 15:48

Thanks for the link....I ordered the book
This is what seems they are in most of the time-the state of Nirvana and it feels so nice to be around them...very contagious and uplifting

Joconde

Re: People without mental power

Post by Joconde » Wed May 13, 2009 20:22

Aspie Image


Here is the film with Jill Bolte Taylor Oprah is talking about....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqNdJue ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYT6CO07 ... re=related

Very impressive

aspie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 17:08

Re: People without mental power

Post by aspie » Thu May 14, 2009 0:05

Thanks , amazing stuff

Two things are especially interesting there

Dr Miller says (and not only him) that autistic kids cannot separate themselves from the environment. His words are exactly the same as that woman
They don't know and don't feel where there body end (in severe cases probably),
so Dr. Miller puts kids up on a board to separate them from the regular environment in order to train them


Also she said about her efforts to talk and what came out of it . Many say that autistic non-verbal persons has full speech inside.
The non-verbal boy I used to work with for sure had speech inside as sometimes he told us the whole sentence (exactly the way she described) but he did it usually in those rare moments when he was angry with us and "the tone of voice" was very obvious and it was even possible to make a "translation"

User avatar
Irinushka
Site Admin
Posts: 7390
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:14
Location: Italy, Piedmont
Contact:

Re: People without mental power

Post by Irinushka » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:47

From the recent (June 3, 2009) message of Karen Bishop's WINGS:

Autism Spectrum Disorder

Now at epidemic proportions, many of our young ones are experiencing this “disorder.” Why? There are many degrees of autism, but generally speaking, this disorder creates a human existence in two realities or dimensions. Our newest arrivals in human form are more highly evolved, and the very newest arrivals are the most evolved, and so forth. The planet as yet, does not match the vibration of these new little ones. As our planet seems to be getting progressively worse while we expand as far as we can to the most extreme degrees of unpleasantness, in order to create the opposite, it can feel like a most dreadful place indeed for our little ones.

Thus, they escape. And they escape to another dimension or world that is most certainly not here. As for the vaccinations creating the disorder: Introducing lower vibrating energies into a higher vibrating being can only serve to wreak havoc and intensify this situation. So then, the vaccinations exacerbate the situation even more. But know as well, that this is not set in stone. My older grandchildren were vaccinated (ages 5 and 9) and were just fine. And one of our twins has been fine as well. My daughter has ceased with the vaccinations for now for our other baby. Many doctors feel that without the vaccinations, diseases would then run rampant and at least, occur again, and some diseases are doing just that. So what then, is the prognosis?

As this planet begins to finally evolve and change (and it is doing this now), autism spectrum disorder will cease to exist. It will first begin to lessen, and then we will hear that we have identified its cause or perhaps found a treatment, or even have experiences of those embodying it finally being strangely cured somehow. But what is actually occurring here, is that it need no longer exist as the energies that created it will no longer exist. Thus, in near times to come, it will finally diminish and these little ones (and not so little ones too), will no longer be in jeopardy, and will recover as well. They will want to be here…the same as us now really wanting to be here, as this earth is now finally “home.”

http://www.emergingearthangels.com/latest.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AIRI-SON

Tornerò a sollecitare le vostre anime

"Съешь же ещё этих мягких французских булок, да выпей чаю." :figurati : ... : : down :

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests